Podcasts are an impactful way for gay people and LGBTQ+ folks to learn more about themselves, the community, and our shared history.
You may have heard the award-winning podcast Gayish, which boasts more than five million downloads and has educated (and entertained) listeners for more than eight years. The hosts, Mike Johnson and Kyle Getz, are expanding their podcast to the page with their new book, You’re Probably Gayish. The beloved podcast never shies away from hot button topics for the gay community, and their book is no exception.
The debut book debunks 17 classic gay stereotypes, offering a fascinating history lesson rooted in queer cultural study. You’re Probably Gayish explores how many of these preconceived notions about gay people came to be. Some are misinformed; others interestingly stem from real socio-anthropological experiences.
Truth be told, there’s a reason many of us carry limp wrists and love musicals. Many of the harmless conventional ideas about gay people are more true than one might realize, though that doesn’t mean we’re a monolith. You’re Probably Gayish peels back the layers of why we’re such a unique community worth studying, supporting, and affirming.
The duo joined me on Zoom for a chat about bringing their podcast energy to a book, explaining why some stereotypes are more rooted in reality than we think, and much more. They enthusiastically offered an expert-level insight on what it means to be unequivocally gay.
So.Gay: I’d love to ask both of you when you knew you wanted to be an author and how your journey has been as a gay writer.
Kyle Getz: I have always wanted to be a writer. I grew up as a kid writing poetry alone in my room and hiding it in my drawer. I’ve been writing as an adult and publishing things like short fiction or poetry for a while, and I never thought that I would actually write a book. So when this came up with Gayish, it was really exciting. It was just an opportunity I didn’t think I’d ever have.
Books are so much work, so complex, so long, so much time and effort. I didn’t know that I would ever be able to achieve that. This project fit well with both my abilities and what Mike and I had been working on for a long time, and having a partner to join me in that process was really helpful in making it happen.
Mike Johnson: I never thought this was gonna be in the cards for me ever. Really, it’s all Kyle’s fault. I knew as soon as this project came up, and Kyle was like, “I’m gonna do this thing.”
I was like, “Okay, we’ll give it a shot.” but a writer, I am not… I’ve tried from time to time to write a little bit of fiction here or there, but never for somebody else to consume. Never this size of a project, it seemed rather daunting. I’m glad that it worked out, but it definitely was not on my bingo card for my life.
So.Gay: It absolutely worked out. What is it like collaborating together, and how have you grown as a team over the years?
M.J.: We always like to say that Kyle and I, on the show, are very different people, and that’s absolutely true. One time, we compared Myers-Briggs results, and we were exactly the opposite. All four letters are in the other direction. And that lends itself well to doing this kind of work and running this kind of operation. Our skills are very complementary. I think we make up for each other’s weaknesses well and are good at amplifying each other’s strengths. It’s been a great friendship for the better part of 20 years now.
K.G.: Going into Gayish, we had a really solid friendship that we had built. People can tell that there is a preexisting relationship there. And I think, going into the book, we worked together on the podcast so much. We knew how to work with each other. We didn’t know how to write a book yet, but we knew how to work with each other and work together. It included a lot of setting deadlines, scheduling things, coming up with structures, and making sure we both knew what the expectations were going into it.
So.Gay: You complement each other so well. Why is it important to acknowledge these stereotypes and dig into their origins?
K.G.: There are a lot of expectations of what it means to be gay. When you first come out, you only know what you’ve seen in media oftentimes. You may not know anyone gay in real life and may not have an example to look up to.
Hopefully, that’s changing now as more and more people come out. But just because you see something on TV doesn’t mean you totally understand it, and they often lean into stereotypes.
Even once you come out, it’s a step towards being more authentic, but you don’t automatically become this completely self-contained, intelligent, autonomous, independent person. You sometimes step into the expectations that you’ve seen on the screen or through other sources. [With the book], we wanted to break some of those down to show that there is no right or wrong way to be gay. You don’t have to fit what your expectations are or other people’s ideas or live up to what you see in the movies. I hope it helps people feel more comfortable and confident in who they are, knowing they don’t have to fit a mold.
M.J.: Yeah, plus one to all of that. As social primates, it’s built into our DNA through evolutionary biology to belong, to need to belong, to want to belong. We do that by looking around our environment and seeing what stories we are expected to tell about ourselves in order to fit in. When somebody comes out, they are now suddenly thrust into this big, wide gay world that has all of these messages about who you’re supposed to be and what lane to stay in, and how to identify yourself. It’s not a perfect fit for everybody and that’s okay. Like Kyle said, there’s no wrong way to be gay and that’s the thing that we want everybody to come away with knowing is that you belong no matter what. The only thing that makes you gay is having sex with dudes, you know?
So.Gay: Very much agree to that. I think you’re helping educate a lot of people. What surprised you in the research?
M.J.: Well, I was definitely surprised… at how many of them ended up being mostly true or true. I expected more of them to come out the other way.
K.G.: One thing that surprised me is I had always grown up with the culture of, which ear is the gay ear to get pierced? I learned that there was one ear that was the gay ear, and one ear was the straight ear. We talk about the phrase ‘left is right, and right is wrong’ to help us remember which ear is the correct ear to get pierced. I found out that the real gay roots of the ear, the left and right, is not about gay and straight. It’s about top and bottom. So left is top and right is bottom. Bottom gets associated with femininity, gets associated with being gay, so that’s why it ends up being the wrong ear or the gay ear. I didn’t realize that, actually, there is no gay ear; both ears are gay. Looking back to our history, it’s just about whether you want to be the top or the bottom.
So.Gay: Your book shares a lot of fun facts, including that gays tend to have larger penises than their straight counterparts. Any other advantages the community should know about?
M.J.: Well, first of all, advantage is a strong word. I think that all penises are great and whatever penis you have is great. If you don’t have a giant penis and are a gay person, you shouldn’t feel any less of a gay person because of that.
Now, it’s hard to know if that’s just because of self-reporting bias or if that’s because gay men are more invested in penises and not only other penises but their own by extension. It’s difficult to know why that’s the case, but there are a couple of studies that have said that, yeah, our dicks are bigger. That’s just one of the weird, quirky things; maybe there’s something about hormones in there because we do know that impacts brain structures.
More study is needed. I think that gay people, though, it is a blessing and a curse that we are raised in a society that hates us or oppresses us in different ways. I think that we have freedom once we’ve come out, once we’ve accepted that we are gay, and we’ve come out of the closet. When we decide to embrace this identity, we sort of have permission then not to follow other rules that society has placed on us.
And we’re allowed to color outside the lines in ways that cis-het people aren’t allowed to. I think that’s a huge advantage.
So.Gay: Kyle, what’s one fun fact from the book that is sticking with you now?
K.G.: I’ve loved researching gaydar, and that was part of what drove my interest. To understand what are the differences between gay men and straight men has piqued my curiosity. I think the fact that gaydar is about 60% accurate on average is something that was really interesting because it means a few things. We have better than a 50-50 chance of guessing whether someone’s straight, but also, it’s not perfect. A lot of gay people will say, “No, my gaydar is perfect” and I think they don’t realize how many people they might miss by just their assumption.
So.Gay: Your book explores the stereotype of gay careers, citing nursing or flight attendants. What’d you find in that research?
K.G.: There were a couple things… There are certain jobs that we tend to have, largely because there is a level of independence that you’re allowed in doing those tasks. This means you don’t have to depend on either co-workers or bosses to manage you, and there’s that level of autonomy. It helps when gay people tend to be in those roles because it has less involvement from other people. We’ve grown up with the involvement of others, which is kind of a detriment to us sometimes, so we like to be able to operate independently where people won’t bring you down. It doesn’t matter if you’re gay when you don’t have to interact with co-workers or other people.
I think there’s also an effect that once people started and liked it, they referred their gay friends. Referrals are a big source of employment. It kind of builds on itself and snowballs into becoming a gay profession. I thought it was interesting some of the gay professions that really fit the stereotypes.
So.Gay: What’s something from the podcast that you’re bringing to the book?
M.J.: The fundamental part of the podcast that has come directly to the book is just breaking down stereotypes and this message that there is no wrong way to be gay. That’s something we’ve focused on from the very very beginning, and we have tried to preserve that vibe. It was difficult to know if our conversational friendship-based rapport that we have on the podcast was going to translate into writing. [From the podcast], we brought over the idea of our ‘gayest and straightest ‘. There are plenty of Easter eggs for listeners, but it’s definitely not required viewing to enjoy the book.
K.G.: The tone of our writing is just like that of the podcast. It’s still our voices and the way we naturally present information. We do it with hope, lightheartedness, some humor, and irreverence towards the topic. There’s gravity to the topics as well so hopefully all that translated over to the book.
So.Gay: As a listener and reader, it absolutely was a great expansion on what already works. What’s next for you both in terms of the podcast and this book?
M.J.: We’re wrapping up our book tour. We were just in San Francisco this weekend, and then we will be in Dallas on Easter Sunday. There’s also the audiobook version of the podcast coming out, though we don’t have a firm date for that yet. We’re going to try to get into video content to go along with the podcast.
We are also doing a week-long cruise in the Mexican Riviera in February of 2027. It’ll be an opportunity for listeners to get together, meet each other, enjoy happy hours, and we’ll do our shows live on the ship. Just hang out as a community.
So.Gay: What’s been your favorite part of working together?
K.G.: I really enjoyed being a writer and a partner. Someone who gives you a built-in little writing group. Many writers always seek that, and it’s often hard to find, so it was really nice having our meeting schedule. You always got your shit done, making edits and finalizing chapters in about 2 weeks each. It was a quick process made easier by having a collaborator. It was also nice to just have a regular meet-up to see my fun friend.
M.J.: Not being a writer, not having written a bunch, it was really awesome just to have Kyle saying positive things to me every week. “You can do this,” like “you are capable of this” or “we are capable of doing this together,” helped a ton. Imposter syndrome is real and it was really valuable to go through that with Kyle.
So.Gay: Do you have any advice for other gay creatives who want to maybe get into podcasting or writing?
M.J.: My genuine advice is don’t start with the goal of making money [in podcasting]. You need to make the show you love, not the one you think people will like. Focus on enjoying it yourself and doing it for you. Do it for the universe, but don’t think you’ll be crazy famous or rolling in cash anytime soon.
K.G.: Good point. I would say, just go for it. Part of what we did was just grab a mic and try it out. Have enough brainstorming sessions that you know your show, as Mike mentioned. You also have to be your own best self-promoter. You have to have faith that what you’re doing is important, and people will want to know about it. Have that confidence in why people should appreciate what you’re doing.
M.J.: Some tough love here. I’m sorry if you think that you don’t have to edit. If you think you can just turn on a microphone and be interesting for an hour, you’re wrong, and you need to edit your show.
So.Gay: Valid tips. Where can folks find you and the book online?
K.G.: They can find us on most social media at Gayish podcast, we’re always on Instagram. We have more info on the book at gayishpodcast.com/book.
So.Gay: Is there anything else you’d like to share, or any final closing notes?
K.G.: I would say that now is an extremely challenging time for LGBT people, especially trans people and that we have gone through hard times together. By focusing on ourselves and our community, I think we’ll make it through this and we’ll weather storms like we have other ones.
